Холостяки и Холостячки мира. Какие они? Приглашаем к знакомству.

"She's giving me all the signs. And I appreciate that. I do."

Watching Nick watch her is heart-wrenching. He is completely exposed and vulnerable and gotten to that point only via encouragement and subsequent confidence:

"Andi and I have an amazing connection. It's the kind of love I've always hoped to have and I think I'm definitely ready to propose to Andi. But I don't know for sure how she feels about me and you know, I'm nervous about that. I've gone down this path before and it's important to me to not have any doubts in my gut. So, going into tonight, if she is in love with me and I'm the person she hopes to spend the rest of her life with I need her to find a way to just let me know because if I don't know it's me, we're not getting engaged."

"At this point I'm ready to propose to Andi but I still have my anxieties about this, having been engaged before and not wanting to have any ounce of doubt."

File those quotes away for later, when we discuss After The Final Rose.


JOSH PICKS THE RING

Let's take a brief intermission from the heavy stuff and notice a rare mic pack sighting!

The sound guys must love having guys (and their belts) versus girls (and their mini dresses) on the show. Mic packs – or rather, their concealment – were a constant battle. I don't think I've ever seen so many velcro thigh straps, waist straps, or industrial-strength double-sided tape as I did during filming.

Josh picking out the ring was pretty damn adorable. He was excited and nervous and, of course, serious. Just LOOK at his face while he assesses the rings, so intent on making the perfect choice. It's precious:

I'd say he did alright. :)

BREAKING UP IS HARD TO DO

You can see poor Nick's mind fly through emotions, reasons, scenarios as he sees Andi at the door instead of Neil Lane:

As Andi uses his own story of waking up the morning of a proposal and thinking something's not right against him, he serves up a direct-look-into-camera for the ages:

As Andi explains, "It's clear to me that the things I see in you, the things I see with us, are ultimately not what I think is best for us", she puts her hand to her heart and – zero sarcasm – I'm reminded of just how unenviable her position is:

Maddy пишет:

Мне трудно признаться, но я понимаю, почему Энди "make love to him" Просто ей так "не повезло"   в этом сезоне с парнями  .

Of course, it goes without saying hers is infinitely more enviable than his and this difficult task is the last on a long list of tasks she signed up for, but it's impossible to not feel for her as well. You can tell her heart is racing as she scrambles for the right words to use. My only wish is she hadn't told him a life with him would result in her overanalyzing every single moment. It just added insult to injury in a moment that should have consisted purely of apologies and the gist that, well, she just can't live without the other man.

She tries. He asks, "Is this more about us or more about someone else?" and she responds with a very telling:


I was SO glad she stated in After The Final Rose that it just came down to what she deemed a stronger, "more right" relationship with someone else. It was the simple truth and a case of desperately necessary tough love. She even says, "I probably should have said it months ago" and is correct.

Nick: "There are certain things I wish you wouldn't have said or done."

Let's be honest. Nick was absolutely led on, as is every runner-up in the history of this show. But there was something very wrong about it happening to Nick. Unlike most contestants on this show, he arrived cautious and skeptical. He wasn't naive but rather intelligent and self-aware, adamant about not allowing the machine of the show to humiliate him. He didn't arrive already halfway "in love" with someone he hadn't even yet met. He didn't make any decisions or assumptions without encouragement or reason. So for him of all people to really let his walls down and expose his heart on national television only to have the rug pulled out from under him is all kinds of sick in my eyes.

THAT SAID, I do not blame Andi for this. I honestly believe Andi cared for Nick a lot. I believe in an alternate universe where there was no time limit and no Josh and just a different set of circumstances, she and Nick could have a fantastic, functional, and maybe even successful relationship. But this is the Bachelorette universe, where the Bachelorette had a job to do, and guess what: she did it VERY well. It's a television show, and if Andi just did what she wanted to do for nine weeks (likely taking in Marseilles, Venice, and Brussels with Josh) and not what was contractually expected of her, believe me, we'd all have tuned out by episode 2. Call it sick, but a consistent audience of several million can't be wrong.

Как Шарлин пишет, я просто снимаю шляпу! Если что то не понятно в этой последней части - спрашивай, она рассуждает о шоу в целом и что оно требует.

Maddy пишет:

BREAKING UP IS HARD TO DO

You can see poor Nick's mind fly through emotions, reasons, scenarios as he sees Andi at the door instead of Neil Lane:

Я представляю как у него здесь оборвалось сердце. 

Вообще очень сложно даже вспоминать по тому, что она пишет, я плачу! Наверное, это был самый "нервный" сезон, где я переживала за Маркуса и других парней, которые так влюбились в Энди, но, как правильно пишет Шарлин, если бы она этого не делала, то после 2 эпизода смотреть бы было нечего, лично для меня этот сезон закончился достаточно рано, у меня был вопрос о том почему Маркус уйдет раньше Криса, когда я это поняла, то остался всего один вопрос - оставит ли она Криса ночевать или нет, ну а после этого было интересно как она расстанется с Ником...очень жестокое шоу, но люди смотрят!

THE PROPOSAL

I'm not going to lie: I was totally charmed by this entire segment. Josh was SO heartbreakingly sincere when he said, "I'm happier than I've ever been in my entire life." It reminded me a bit of when he had a sit-down with his mother during his hometown. When he holds back tears he sort of twists his mouth and it's all kinds of cute:

We could have done without the ominous music pretending there might be a chance in hell Andi wasn't going to reciprocate Josh's love, but on the whole it was one of the sweeter proposals I've seen on the show. These two are clearly smitten with each other and are destined to be the new poster children for the franchise's successful couples.

In After The Final Rose, for the first time this entire season I had an impossible time relating to Nick. So much of who he's represented himself as being is self-aware and authentic. I'm not saying the segment of him not being over Andi isn't authentic, but it's definitely not self-aware. (согласна, он был совершенно потерянным и в полном шоке, но во время их последнего разговора в шоу я бы тоже не сказала, что он был очень self-aware, что тоже понятно...но я давно расхожусь в этом с Шарлин в оценке Ника)

Here's why: If Andi wanted him, then or now, I think the ball would be in her court to make that clear. If at After The Final Rose she were to pull a Jason Mesnick, again, that's her move to make, not his. No heartfelt letters, visit attempts, or other grand gestures will make her change her mind. It's something that must – and should – come from her, unprompted. I understand the need for closure and wanting to just get it "out there", but After The Final Rose is guaranteed. He'd get his moment to confront her. Any attempts before that are not his responsibility. Personally, I think I have a particularly hard time relating to this because I know my pride would never allow me to show further hurt than I'd already revealed. It's a form of self-preservation and I guess a fear of being made a fool, but not something I'd change about myself.

I get that he truly fell for her. I do. He felt about her like he's never felt about anyone, and obviously fell hard. But there's no use in dwelling on what went wrong if half of the equation checked out a long time ago. Especially when it's clear that at least some of what they had was a farce, which let's be honest, it would have had to be. (Refer above to my paragraph about the runner-up always being led on to some extent.)

Also, his holding onto what they had doesn't align with those quotes of his I wrote earlier. Highlights were:
"If I don't know it's me, we're not getting engaged."
"At this point I'm ready to propose to Andi but I still have my anxieties about this, having been engaged before and not wanting to have any ounce of doubt."

Along the same vein, if she's showing regret over having picked another man, based on his own words, he should not be still hung up on her. He himself says he doesn't want any ounce of doubt. What pieces could they possibly pick up after this ultimate doubt-inducing betrayal on her part? Granted, I can't begin to imagine the confusion and loss he's experiencing. I may have been in the Bachelor pressure-cooker bubble but I know I never felt anywhere near the earnest feelings he obviously did, nor do I think everyone deals (nor should deal) with loss in the same way. So it's not my place to judge.

Maddy пишет:

:



THAT SAID, I do not blame Andi for this. I honestly believe Andi cared for Nick a lot. I believe in an alternate universe where there was no time limit and no Josh and just a different set of circumstances, she and Nick could have a fantastic, functional, and maybe even successful relationship. But this is the Bachelorette universe, where the Bachelorette had a job to do, and guess what: she did it VERY well. It's a television show, and if Andi just did what she wanted to do for nine weeks (likely taking in Marseilles, Venice, and Brussels with Josh) and not what was contractually expected of her, believe me, we'd all have tuned out by episode 2. Call it sick, but a consistent audience of several million can't be wrong.

Как Шарлин пишет, я просто снимаю шляпу! Если что то не понятно в этой последней части - спрашивай, она рассуждает о шоу в целом и что оно требует.

А что тут спросишь?   Полностью согласна. Не было бы Джоша был бы Ник и отношения с ним. Трудно сказать(в отличие от Джоша) как долго продлились бы эти отношения.   Они оба очень сложные люди. Страшно было на него смотреть.Ему не так просто далось это шоу.В отличие от многих он понимал, что здесь происходит, но все равно прыгнул в это болото. Если бы это была не Энди, я не думаю, что он бы остался. Но это была та женщина, которая смогла взять над ним власть, как и он над ней, на некоторое время. Но ее спас Джош, а его спасти  было некому. И он утонул  Но мож найдется какая-нибудь русалка, которая его спасет. Но это было уже 2 раз. Боюсь, что он может из скептиков перейти в циники и станет опасен для женщин. А мож и не станет. Сейчас у него есть популярность, может женщины начнут к нему приставать и он отвлечется. Все таки он-романтик в душе.

Maddy пишет:

In After The Final Rose, for the first time this entire season I had an impossible time relating to Nick. So much of who he's represented himself as being is self-aware and authentic. I'm not saying the segment of him not being over Andi isn't authentic, but it's definitely not self-aware. (согласна, он был совершенно потерянным и в полном шоке, но во время их последнего разговора в шоу я бы тоже не сказала, что он был очень self-aware, что тоже понятно...но я давно расхожусь в этом с Шарлин в оценке Ника)

Here's why: If Andi wanted him, then or now, I think the ball would be in her court to make that clear. If at After The Final Rose she were to pull a Jason Mesnick, again, that's her move to make, not his. No heartfelt letters, visit attempts, or other grand gestures will make her change her mind. It's something that must – and should – come from her, unprompted. I understand the need for closure and wanting to just get it "out there", but After The Final Rose is guaranteed. He'd get his moment to confront her. Any attempts before that are not his responsibility. Personally, I think I have a particularly hard time relating to this because I know my pride would never allow me to show further hurt than I'd already revealed. It's a form of self-preservation and I guess a fear of being made a fool, but not something I'd change about myself.

Пошла по делам. Приду отпишусь. Немного не поняла, о чем здесь? 
Спокойной ночи! До завтра!  Спасибо за инфу от Шарлин, очень интересно. 

THAT CONTROVERSIAL FANTASY SUITE COMMENT

Here's my take on what happened: Nick is still hurting, heartbroken, confused. He finally has his moment to confront Andi. Andi appears and is noticeably guarded. There's no mistaking it and I suspect this unfamiliar Andi catches him off-guard. I think Nick was expecting a warmer, compassionate, perhaps still apologetic Andi, something closer to what he knows of her. Instead of just giving her a piece of his mind as the runners-up often do, he is strangely meek. He mentions his letter and she curtly says she's read it, and he thanks her! (This caused me quite a bit of distress as I don't think her reading his letter is any sort of favor.) Dissatisfied with her lack of empathy, and not being able to articulate his frustrations more clearly, he asks how she could have made love to him if she didn't love him.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, NICK.

Andi doesn't miss a beat and rightfully calls him out on the spot for his "below the belt" comment. I was really impressed with her composure and quickness in that moment. In her position I know I probably would have been too flustered to stammer out anything sensical.
Меня тоже впечатлило как быстро, четко и спокойно она поставила его на место! Наверное прокурорская закалка! Да, классная девушка досталась Джошу, может постоять за себя!

Sophiya пишет:

Немного не поняла, о чем здесь?

В 2-х словах о том, что впервые за все время тут Шарлин было трудно...э-э-э, как же это по русски??? быть согласной с Ником??? Все не то, короче, раньше она его чувствовала и как бы проживала с ним присшедщее, а тут уже не могла...потому что после того как тебя отвергли нечего клянчить подачек в виде встреч, ведь будет после последней розы, вот и встреча...Энди сделал свой выбор и если бы она передумала и решила сыграть Мезника, то это было бы ее решение, а не его, только она могла что то тут изменить, не он, а потому надо было спокойно ждать После последней розы, а не метать яйца и писать письма, примерно так! Еще она говорит, что лично ей бы гордость не позволила еще раз показывать как она страдает, это и так уже понятно!
Cейчас закончу постить и пойду спать, а тебе хорошего дня, завтра поговоритм!
Рада, что Шарлин написала, как бальзам на раны! Энди ее подруга, а Ник ей всегда нравился, она не стала вставать ни на чью сторонy, а просто спокойно разобрала все по полочкам!  

I am actively against slut-shaming and take it very seriously. I'm all for women knowing what they want and making their own decisions, whether it be to remain abstinent or to sleep with whomever they want to, however often they want to. It is the woman's body, her choice, and she should stand by her wants. I know one of the things that makes Nick's comment so controversial is the fact that he said it on national television. Certainly, I agree that is private and he had no business trying to retaliate with it with an audience of millions. But frankly, I think all the fury with his having said it – clearly a case of him nervously trying to elicit any kind of reaction out of her and subsequently putting his foot in mouth – is slightly overblown. But either way, believe it or not, that's not my concern.

I can't help but think if Andi were the guy in this scenario and Nick the girl, no one would bat an eye that she was "intimate" with more than one man. As a man, it would just be in his red-blooded male nature to want to sow his wild oats. There's a slight insinuation and double standard that as a woman, if she wasn't going to pick him, she shouldn't have slept with him. And I reiterate, I firmly believe a woman can do what she wants without judgment. And I felt Andi was on the receiving end of judgment, whether from Nick or any one of America's Bachelor viewers, and that EES SO NOT OKAY in my book.

That said, I'm all about open discussion and realize there is more than one take on this. When I said I felt it would have been different were the genders reversed, Kate – one of my dearest friends and reluctant Bachelor/ette convert – had a great counterargument:

"I don't know. I think it would have been the same. I thought Nick felt that he was used by her because he thought "making love" was an act of expressing love. I actually find that refreshing in a man. It maybe isn't even worth making a big deal over. It already seems like everybody focused more on that more than the truth of what Nick was saying: she totally played him, particularly if she says she never loved him. In my opinion, she wasn't slut-shamed by him asking broken-heartedly why she led him on by making love to him when she knew she liked Josh more. The sex thing has become some "scandal", as if the Fantasy Suite on the Bachelorette is supposed to be some classy thing that Nick has now tainted."

I have the best friends. :D

I personally agree that Nick didn't mean to bring it up in a slut-shame way. He definitely seems open-minded and forward-thinking in his views and doesn't seem to have issues with respecting women and their rights. I still think bringing up the Fantasy Suite was out of line, whether or not he thought the sex meant she loved him. Not to bring up gender reversal again, but I can't help but think if he were a woman, his behavior would be at risk of being considered clingy and delusional, and his attempts to see her, stalker-ish.

You can see this is veering off onto a tangent about feminism and gender stereotypes, so I'll pass the mic to you, dear readers. Comment below if you agree, disagree, or have a different take altogether.

A side note: Nick forfeited any upper hand, in my opinion, by bringing up the Fantasy Suite. He went into it the sympathetic character and victim, Andi the culprit. But by accusing her of "making love" when she wasn't "in love" instantaneously switched their titles. Andi swiftly became the victim and became (understandably) defensive, and Nick didn't get the answers he sought. It just wasn't productive.

THE HAPPY COUPLE

No one can deny that Andi and Josh are great together. She made her choice which is the right choice; it came down to who she couldn't live without and for her that was Josh. I truly have zero doubt they'll continue to make each other very happy.

Just look at those megawatt smiles!

CONGRATULATIONS, ANDI AND JOSH!

Maddy пишет:

THAT CONTROVERSIAL FANTASY SUITE COMMENT


Andi doesn't miss a beat and rightfully calls him out on the spot for his "below the belt" comment. I was really impressed with her composure and quickness in that moment. In her position I know I probably would have been too flustered to stammer out anything sensical.
Меня тоже впечатлило как быстро, четко и спокойно она поставила его на место! Наверное прокурорская закалка! Да, классная девушка досталась Джошу, может постоять за себя!

Прочитала в каком-то интернетовском издании комментарий кого-то из съемочной группы, что в это время Джош стоял за кулисами и следил за разговором.Он был восхищен как она самостоятельно разобралась с Ником. Они думали, что будет хуже(по-видимому, они ждали разбор полета(ночного) и она была готова к этому).

Он здесь такой классный.

Две мои самые любимые Bachelorette

картина маслом: "Бурлаки на Волге" в роли бурлака К. Харрисон  

Кстати, прочитала в каком-то интервью(они уже у меня в голове все смешались), что Джоша спросили, почему вы так нелепо всегда целовались. А он сказал, что орги ,специально, не показывали их "самые страстные в мире поцелуи", иначе уже со 2 эпизода все стало бы понятно(как будто, мы и так не поняли, у нас фантазией все в порядке  ) Я так и знала, что нас лишили сладкого . 

Andi, it's not uncommon to kiss a lot of frogs on this show. Do you have any kisser's remorse after watching yourself?

Andi Dorfman: I really didn't kiss that many people in comparison. Like, I can honestly say I kissed the guys that I had -- close your ears, Josh (laughs) -- I kissed the guys that I had, you know, relationships with. I wasn't just handing them out like free goodies on Halloween, so I thought I did [well] in that department.

Andi, do you have any plans to go back to law, or are you going to take an approach similar to some Bachelorettes who have changed course in their careers after starring on the show?

Andi Dorfman: I definitely have intentions of going back to law. You know, I'm pretty newly -- I'm a new attorney. I haven't been doing it for that long and I'm not even close to burnt out, so it's definitely something I worked hard for and definitely something I'm proud of. It's something that I'm ready to get back to soon.

Who do you think should be the next Bachelor?

Andi Dorfman: Well, from my season, I think Josh and I are both rooting for [Chris Soules]. I mean, he is a genuine guy, and I think you've seen the whole time -- and especially last night -- what a class act he is. So, I think we're definitely on "Team Chris" for Bachelor.

Josh Murray: Yes, Chris is the only one possible, really, from our season, to be honest right now. Out of the ones that are left...

Andi Dorfman: [He's] our favorite, yes, our favorite.

Josh Murray: Our favorite, yes. The ones that aren't on Bachelor Paradise, and all that other stuff.

Andi, a follow-up to that work question, did you quit your job? I had read you were you on leave and you're planning to go back to that job?

Andi Dorfman: Well, I was on leave, and obviously, you know, doing all the promotion for the show, I couldn't extend my leave. I didn't think that would be fair to anybody. So I kind of, you know, resigned but definitely left it in a good place and it's something that I can go back to.

Andi, I loved so many of your fashion choices...

Andi Dorfman: Thanks!

... On the show. There was a little bit of a departure from some of the other Bachelorettes, and I was wondering how you went about picking each dress, you know, who your stylist was, if you had a stylist, how much input you had, etc.

Andi Dorfman: I did have a stylist, Cary Fetman, who I am forever grateful for my fabulous wardrobe. But we had so much fun. I am definitely a girly girl, and we had tons of fittings and tried on different dresses.

And you know, we really picked each outfit according to the date, and the weather, and the place, and honestly, it was one of my favorite things about the show -- other than Josh of course. But I loved the fashion. That was like the girl in me that got to do that, that was a once in a lifetime thing.

Great, well you looked beautiful.

Andi Dorfman: Thank you.

And Josh, you looked great as well.

Josh Murray: Thank you very much.

Andi Dorfman: He's not too ba d to look at.

Could you both talk about your experience with casting? Andi, you obviously did both The Bachelor and The Bachelorette.

Andi Dorfman: My casting experience obviously, you know, coming from The Bachelor, I went to a casting [call] in Atlanta. I was single and my girlfriends were like, "Just go! why not?" And I don't know why I went to this day. Obviously I'm glad I did.

But I just kind of drove to the casting by myself, and I remember I had a suit on because I came from work, and everyone had these like cute dresses on. So I took off my blazer and just went in my skirt and blouse, and next thing I know, I was in LA.

Josh Murray: Yes, and for me, it actually -- I have family up north, and I have some friends down south in Georgia that, you know, were talking to me about The Bachelorette the whole time, for quite a while now, and I was kind of teased about it.

But I was at home, and I got a call from somebody on The Bachelorette asking me to come in, and they wanted to see me and everything. So that's kind of how it got started, and I figured out that that's what I wanted to do. And I saw them in Atlanta, and you know, I just went for it, and said, "Why not?" I haven't been able to find somebody in 29 years, so maybe this is the right time.

Andi Dorfman: And the same girl casted both of us.

Josh Murray: Yes, same girl. She's definitely coming to our wedding.

Maybe she's like your own personal matchmaker.

Andi Dorfman: I know.

Josh Murray: I'm telling you, she is.

When you start making wedding plans, do you think you guys would enjoy having your wedding televised?

Andi Dorfman: I mean, I think it would be fun. We're definitely open to it, you know? We are fun and open with each other, so if there happens to be a camera there, then there happens to be a camera there, but we're going to have a fun wedding regardless.

You've talked about Chris Soules being mentioned as a possible next Bachelor. What advice would you have for him if he was to be the next star?

Andi Dorfman: I mean, my advice, I guess, from a lead standpoint -- Josh might have different advice from a guy standpoint -- but I would say, you know, be open and honest with your feelings, and also, stand up for what you believe, stand up for the decisions that you make.

Because at the end of it, it's you and the other person hopefully, and you want to be able to look back and be proud of the decisions that you made.

Josh Murray: I just feel like somebody that's the next Bachelor should just be real, be themselves, and like Andi was saying, you know, make your own decisions -- don't be swayed or pulled in one decision or another, you know?

If you don't have feelings for somebody, then you don't need to show that you have feelings for somebody. Be very honest with them, and at the end of the day, if you're very real and honest with everybody, hopefully they'll be real with you back and you can find your perfect match.

I know you touched upon it a little bit, but what was the hardest part about keeping your relationship a secret the past few months?

Andi Dorfman: I think the hardest part for me was wanting to tell everybody, like as a woman especially, like I'm engaged. You know, it's so exciting, and I couldn't really tell a lot of people.

Josh Murray: Yes, I just wanted it to be out in the open. It was so tough hiding it, and you know, we're very open and honest people. We just want to go out there and tell everybody in the world, and we just had to keep it to ourselves. And that was very tough, very tough for the last two months, but it's been well worth the wait, that's for sure.

Andi Dorfman: We're engaged!

Was it hard keeping the secret from your parents, or did you kind of let them in on it?

Andi Dorfman: We told our parents.

Josh Murray: We told them immediately.

Andi Dorfman: Yes, we told them like moments after the proposal.

Josh Murray: Same time.

Andi Dorfman: That's the thing for me, like I wanted to share that with my family, and he wanted to share that with his family. That was really important to us.

Now you can scream your engagement out to the world. (Laughs)

Andi Dorfman: We're engaged!

Josh Murray: Woo!

When you talked to Nick at one point at the end of the season, comforting him, you repeated, "It will be alright." Did you look at it later and realize maybe where Juan Pablo Galavis was coming from with his "it's okay" phrase you had hated so much?

Andi Dorfman: Well, there's a difference between saying "it's okay" when someone's trying to voice their expressions and emotions, and it being a cut-off, versus a kind of, you know, encouragement, I guess you could say. I was trying to encourage, that it's going to be alright, like everything will work out for a reason -- not cutting off someone's feelings. So there's a difference to me.

Josh really seemed to turn your smile upside down. I mean, you seem so much happier now.

Andi Dorfman: I am.

Andi, how did you feel about the grumpy cat comparison?

Andi Dorfman: See, that was funny to me, like it's funny, in the very beginning, I was kind of getting sensitive about little things, but now I've just learned to embrace it. Like I say stop a lot, and I say y'all, and you know, I do have that little frown face. So it's funny, and I think everybody enjoys a little self-deprecation, so that's the route I've taken, and it's all good for us.

Josh Murray: I didn't even know who grumpy cat was.

Andi Dorfman: Now you do, I'm your grumpy cat.

Josh Murray: Yes, you're my grumpy cat.

So you've had several weeks, Andi, where you haven't been working and stuff. How did you actually spend your days the past two or three months?

Andi Dorfman: Well, I've been traveling a lot for the show, you know, we've done a lot of different press things, whether it be kind of filming things, or The Men Tell All -- so lots of traveling. To be honest, I'm still working on unpacking all my suitcases.